Comments on: Albert Oehlen at The Zabludowicz Collection http://abstractcritical.com/article/albert-oehlen-at-the-zabludowicz-collection/ Abstract Critical is a not-for profit company aiming to establish a new critical context for all generations of artists involved with ambitious abstract art. Sun, 09 Nov 2014 17:23:33 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.9.2 By: John Holland http://abstractcritical.com/article/albert-oehlen-at-the-zabludowicz-collection/#comment-136868 Thu, 11 Apr 2013 22:00:31 +0000 http://abstractcritical.com/?post_type=article&p=6750#comment-136868 Well, since you just brought up the idea of the conceptual framework- outside of which you claim Oehlen is working- I would have hoped you yourself had some idea which one you thought you were talking about. Clearly not.

And I wonder why you would think that mentioning that Oehlen is liked by fashionable curators (and is therefore unlikely to be working outside their frames of reference) is ‘calling upon their approbation in support of my own appraisal’?

The weird thing is that I don’t think we really disagree on things as much as you like to think, but you seem to have got into a bit of a confused tizz about things. Probably best that we both shut up- it’s pretty unedifying.

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By: Alan Gouk http://abstractcritical.com/article/albert-oehlen-at-the-zabludowicz-collection/#comment-136780 Thu, 11 Apr 2013 18:53:01 +0000 http://abstractcritical.com/?post_type=article&p=6750#comment-136780 Irony is no excuse for poor judgement and touting phoney polarities. If you have to call on the approbation of global curator types in support of your appraisal of Oehlen, that puts you in a curious position as a would-be critic, would it not? And which conceptual framework are we talking about? Is it the one stemming from Jasper John’s, or the one you said you didn’t agree with not so long ago? The computer has gone back to London now, so I’m out. Bye!

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By: John Holland http://abstractcritical.com/article/albert-oehlen-at-the-zabludowicz-collection/#comment-135426 Tue, 09 Apr 2013 13:47:32 +0000 http://abstractcritical.com/?post_type=article&p=6750#comment-135426 And by the way, Oehlen doesn’t at all work ‘outside the current conceptual framework’, hence his popularity amongst global curator types. (See Provisional Painting.)
Do keep up, Alan.

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By: John Holland http://abstractcritical.com/article/albert-oehlen-at-the-zabludowicz-collection/#comment-135192 Tue, 09 Apr 2013 06:29:57 +0000 http://abstractcritical.com/?post_type=article&p=6750#comment-135192 Alan- whilst I now realize I made a mistake in assuming that everyone had a rough idea of the uses of irony, it would be nice if, when misusing my words, you could try at least to get them right. Cheers.

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By: Alan Gouk http://abstractcritical.com/article/albert-oehlen-at-the-zabludowicz-collection/#comment-135161 Tue, 09 Apr 2013 05:42:17 +0000 http://abstractcritical.com/?post_type=article&p=6750#comment-135161 PS. It’s not a different debate or different discourse. It’s the same debate, one carried out with clarity and authority, the other a mishmash of incoherence signifying nothing. The correct comparison is with Alan Davie,s pictures of the early 60.s shown at the Thomas Dane Gallery a few years ago.

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By: Alan Gouk http://abstractcritical.com/article/albert-oehlen-at-the-zabludowicz-collection/#comment-135140 Tue, 09 Apr 2013 05:19:48 +0000 http://abstractcritical.com/?post_type=article&p=6750#comment-135140 Oehlen’s Evilution ( presumably a nod to the silly word-games of Derrida ) appears to operate entirely outside the “dominant conceptual framework ” allegedly initiated by Jasper Johns’ “final literalisation of the picture surface ” (and why not ?) , but unfortunately it consists of a compendium of graphic tricks and illusionistic devices , in which oh so knowing gestures of contrived spontaneity are teamed up with , superimposed on all manner of indicators of spatial disjunction. The lurid yellow “ground” falls away, sliced apart by the criss-crossing of masking-taped bands, looking through to other kinds of space, and so on and so on. Utter directness this is certainly not ; multi-technique laborious contrivance ( like that of Richter, Polke etc. ) to what end ? – clever stuff. Yes Sam, it makes one yearn for ” the sort of painting represented at the Poussin Gallery.”

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By: John Bunker http://abstractcritical.com/article/albert-oehlen-at-the-zabludowicz-collection/#comment-124280 Tue, 19 Mar 2013 11:15:41 +0000 http://abstractcritical.com/?post_type=article&p=6750#comment-124280 Or perhaps we’re mything something….. ( sorry for stealing your joke….)
Surely this is why a social and historically based understanding of the cultural upheavals of the late 19th and early 20th century are vital to fathom or demythologise an artist like Cezanne and now, here in the21st century, one like Oehlen.

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By: Robin Greenwood http://abstractcritical.com/article/albert-oehlen-at-the-zabludowicz-collection/#comment-123772 Mon, 18 Mar 2013 15:40:57 +0000 http://abstractcritical.com/?post_type=article&p=6750#comment-123772 Gets tricky, don’t it? because all those derogatory terms and more were once applied to Cezanne by eminent artists and critics. Perhaps we’re missing something.

[laughs]

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By: John Holland http://abstractcritical.com/article/albert-oehlen-at-the-zabludowicz-collection/#comment-123735 Mon, 18 Mar 2013 13:46:03 +0000 http://abstractcritical.com/?post_type=article&p=6750#comment-123735 Robin-

You are indeed involved in ‘different debates’.
From what I’ve read about P(p?)rovisional painting (I’ve done it so you don’t have to), the critical consensus is that a lot of this work is deliberately inept or incomplete; one critic, who was a fan, wrote that one might reasonably think De Keyser’s paintings were the work of an unskilled amateur. This was the point, and the intention.
Whatever the conceptual reasons for this stance, it stands to reason that calling such a work ‘inept’ is not, in itself, a meaningful criticism, any more than calling Monet’s work ‘impressionistic’.
Of course, it goes without saying that you could call the stance itself lazy, idiotic, weak or fundamentally dishonest, but that’s another matter.

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By: Terry Ryall http://abstractcritical.com/article/albert-oehlen-at-the-zabludowicz-collection/#comment-123704 Mon, 18 Mar 2013 12:22:44 +0000 http://abstractcritical.com/?post_type=article&p=6750#comment-123704 Sam,I know very little about provisional painting and consequently whether its worth bothering with or not but in a sense such labelling (and the inevitable generalisations that accompany it) although to a degree convenient is not without its dangers. As recently as 2011 Albert Oehlen’s work was included in a show of ‘Provisional Painting’ at The Modern Art Gallery, London. Whether he or anybody else is a provisional or any other sort of painter it should be possible to apply the same criteria to their work as to that of Gillian Ayres or whoever else one might care to name. This doesn’t seem to me to be exclusive or imply that all artists should either come from or arrive at the same position as each other. Aside from being impossible that would be very boring indeed for all of us. Truly visual, yes, beyond that?

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